Winterís background spans a broad spectrum of disciplines. He
graduated with honors at the Jesuit University of Detroit, he
pursued graduate studies in psychophysiology, and the origins of
languages. He has worked as a Systems Analyst with IBM, an
industrial metallurgist and a crystallographer.
lectures extensively around the world and recently toured Australia.
It was during Danís Sydney series of lectures that this interview
was conducted. The object of the interview was to address Danís
applications of mathematical modelling to optimise spiritual
development as a spin-off of his research on the relationship of
emotion to wave length structure. One important tool developed by
Dan is the Heart Tuner which measures or quantizes the onset of
conscious self-awareness by virtue of the apparent geometry of the
heart harmonics being geometrically linked by progressions based on
powers of Phi (the Golden Mean .618033989...).
is a prolific writer and much of his work is available on the
Internet. The writings on American based websites however, were shut
down and made inaccessible to the public on 23 May 2001 by the
United States District Court, Western District of New York, as a
result of a controversy regarding the generation of letter form
shadows of a number of different alphabets. Danís side of the story
information on the interviewer, Tony Mierzwicki, can be found
Dan could you tell us about a little bit of your esoteric training?
Well I was trained in the Gurdjieff school at Claymont, Charlestown,
West Virginia, in the Gurdjieff sacred gymnastic [www.claymont.org].
I lived with very spiritual communities. I studied some of the
Ophanim Enochian material with Vincent Bridges whilst I worked with
Israel Regardie. Iíve studied spectograms of the Hebrew alphabet and
some gematria, some of the Fred Wolf work which I then replicated.
Iíve also been involved in some studies of John Dee and Edward Kelly
and also Fulcanelli and the connection with Schwaller de Lubicz and
those sorts of controversies. I also worked with
www.sirbacon.org and some of the Sir Francis Bacon myth.
Iíve also been involved in some of the studies on the Boynich
manuscripts and their meaning with respect to the Cathars.
How about your academic background?
My academic background? Undergraduate electrical engineering,
graduate work in psychophysiology of the origin of languages. My
graduate degree was incomplete, I went off to study the Gurdjieff
work and then I was trained as a systems analyst with IBM. Then I
became a computer animator in multimedia. Iíve done a lot of
lecturing on non-linear energy source technologies, psychotronics
kinds of communities, so I have a lot of electrical background, so I
tend to bridge the electrical with the metaphysical.
Interesting, because most people tend to consider academic
background as very much separated from spiritual background whereas
you appear to have successfully merged the two together.
Well Iíve gone to a lot of trouble. When I met the Jesuit who ran
the Fermi Lab in Adamsmasher in Chicago, he said ďOh, I keep my
physics and my religion separate.Ē But I was determined not to fall
for that schizophrenia so Iíve worked at that. At least itís fun.
So, what sort of tips could you give people as to how they could
improve their own spiritual development? Like, for instance, places
where they should live and so on?
Well, what weíve been teaching here is definition of life force. The
description on the web is at
www.soulinvitation.com/indexdw.html, the main index, at
www.soulinvitation.com/lifeforce/index.html, where if weíre
able to define life force as electricians which I believe we have
now. Life force in the Celestine Prophecy was originally all human
interactions about charge. But weíve extended that now to mean life
force is the ability to attract in self-organised charge. Why is an
egg gathering voltage? If weíre correct about that, and the tool,
the Heart Tuner here we use to spectrum analyse charge density here,
this Heart Tuner weíre able to measure the harmonic analysis of
capacitance using a biological capacitive probe in a pre-amplifier
and then when we spectrum analyse that we are able to see when the
charge harmonics gather whatís called life force. So if we are
correct, that life force is the ability to attract this charge. When
we measure the life force in an egg, before and after we put the egg
in a capacitor, the spectrum analysis of charge makes it very clear
that the life force in the egg is the ability to suck in that
capacitance. So if thatís correct that life force is this fractal
attractor for capacitance, then success in architecture, success in
making a place to live whether itís choosing a place on the land or
choosing a house, is success in building a good capacitor to hold
charge density. The thing is that charge density doesnít converge at
one place, plus you have fractality, plus you have paramagnetic
materials, with dielectric, etc. So you begin to look at all the
factors that make a house a place to live in a land alive and you
treat it like an electrical problem, which it truly is.
So in practical terms, where should people be living?
People should be living in places where the paramagnetic flux, the
magnetism, is able to converge non-destructively. People should be
living in places where the charge density is not being bled. Things
that bleed capacitance are metal, and sharp points and most
synthetic materials. Things that bend capacitance like a lens and
can create cavities and cocoons and little self-organising field
domains are things like paramagnetic stone and certain wood and
organic materials that actually hold capacitance and life force. So
thatís a big clue as to what your house needs to be made of. It
essentially means that heavy metal structures in big cities bleed
capacitance so fast that of course people die sooner.
So basically weíre talking about timber cottages, and stone
cottages, like sandstone cottages?
With almost a total reduction or elimination of metal actually, and
a very radical reduction in the amount of wiring, and electricals,
and currents, and circuits, and things like that. Because any field
effect which does not embed in the earthís magnetic flux, by
embedding I mean a wavelength that fits the nest, creates
fractionation, loss of attention, and loss of life.
So, weíre talking about locations by the seaside, in forests?
Yes, weíre talking, this is in addition to what has been known as
sacred space, that any place that holds charge has been called
sacred, because the field effect is sustainable. And in practical
terms, what it means is you go there and you feel your aura unpack,
because in fractals, packing and unpacking is non-destructive. And
the unpacking of your aura which is electrostatic and capacitive is
the unfolding of a field effect that then becomes your nervous
system. Your body literally inhabits the land.
So, are sacred spaces naturally existing, or can they be created?
Both. Sacred spaces are naturally existing in the sense that Mother
Nature has maximum life force in where charge density has already
been made into a fractal, and sacred space can be created by using
paramagnetic materials to fabricate capacitive cocoons that hold
life force. An example of that I believe was the Garden of Eden in
Sumeria, which was an experiment in maintaining life force by
What about optimal places for being born and for dying? You
mentioned those in your workshop.
Well we use the example that the Cherokee shaman looks for a place
where the little hill looks like the mountain in the distance
because you could die there and your biological magnetism could
unpack non-destructively from the small to the big. And thus your
soul, the amount of electrical field effect coherence we call a
soul, is able to unfold and distribute itself in the land and thus
not be fractionated, in other words, become immortal. So that
applies to both birthing and dying. Essentially if you miss the
mouthpiece of a megaphone, your voice is not amplified. A megaphone
is a name for a fractal.
What sort of advice would you have for people who are doomed to live
in the cities and not live in an idyllic situation either by the sea
or in a forest?
Well if youíre forced to live in the city there are obviously places
of power there which are places of capacitance. Carlos Castaneda
describes some of the psychological indicators of a place of power.
But to begin to be able to do some dowsing yourself is an excellent
way to begin to be able to feel magnetism which I consider to be
survival required. Once you are able to do that youíre able to
locate the places in the city where the magnetism is most alive and
thus steer your life around to those choices.
What sort of techniques would you recommend for dowsing? Would you
use a couple of willow wands, or how would you go about it?
I personally am a big believer in not using wands at all, or a
pendulum. But Iím not religious about that, I just think that if you
start from the very beginning by noticing that you feel the presence
of a magnet in your hand, that presence of feeling magnetism is your
survival because itís how you will navigate when you lucid dream or
die. Using that skill to feel magnetism directly you begin to
prehend magnetic flux lines in your bed, in your house, in your
park, and your city.
Are there any easy techniques that people can use to better
Yes. Feeling a magnetic line is not unlike seeing an aura. The more
capacitance in your body the more likely you are to become
sensitive, because you literally become more coherent
mathematically. So sitting under an old growth tree predicts your
likelihood of new clairvoyance from Celestine Prophecy. The same
thing applies to being able to feel magnetism. So if you took a
relaxed nap and some deep breathing in a pristine spot under an old
growth tree your likelihood just after that of newly being able to
feel the magnetic lines in yourself is increased. So if you combine
that with going some place where you know that there is a strong
magnetic line you begin to feel them for yourself, and that in my
view is the beginning of living.
Are there are many trees that are more suited for the purpose that
youíve just described?
In general the principle is that the closer the grain structure of
the wood, the more the fractal density of the charge and therefore,
self-awareness of the structure of the tree electrically. The tree
is the name for a fractal branching algorithm of electricity
basically. The fern tree was the first fractal. So the more fractal
the tree, the more close the grain structure of the wood, the more
it is paramagnetic, hardwoods for example. The oak tree is another
example of a tree thatís classically known to be highly magnetic,
the Druids used them. But there are many such trees. Actually weíre
able now to spectrum analyse the charge at the base of the trees and
we find trees which are more responsive to human emotion than
others. In general those are the trees that are larger, older trees
that still have a lot of life force and have been relatively
pristine in their not being exposed to too much magnetic pollution.
So apart from oak trees what other trees would you recommend?
Well a living pine tree can be very fractal as well even though it
is a soft tree. Iím not really an expert on trees so I donít have a
detailed enough answer to that question I suppose. Actually weíve
been making quite a few measures on trees using this capacitive
transducer for the heart tuner. The Heart Tuner is at
www.heartcoherence.com. But I would say in general, look for
a tree that literally is attracting life force and you can feel it
pulse under your hand. The same way a sacro-cranial practitioner can
feel the long wave currents in your spine, you feel the pulsing of
In your workshop you talk about the negative effects of strong
magnetic fields in houses. What are the best ways to get around
those magnetic fields?
Well we talked in the workshop about using highly piezo-electric
stones like quartz and granite and amethyst and in key nodes around
the house to bounce a geopathic magnetic line around the house so it
does not go through your bed. We talked about moving the electrical
devices to one quarter and living in the other, reducing the metal
in your house, reducing the amperage flow in magnetic devices,
turning off the main circuit breaker at night, there are various
techniques. Often if you canít find a magnetic line thatís going
through the house because itís so weak, when you track magnetic
lines around the house, youíre literally able to get an idea of
where theyíre trying to go through the house.
What sort of diet would you recommend for people who wish to embark
on a spiritual path?
I teach something called the Twinkling Eyes Lifestyle which divides
into four categories, the hygienes to make bliss possible, which I
believe is charge density. And those are divided into diet, and Feng
Shui, the geomancy of backyard, and the posture of kinesthetics of
bliss, and enough knowledge of soul purpose to be able to follow
your bliss. In the diet area what I teach is that the diet should be
mostly made of live food and high quality protein; drastically
reduced intake of wheat, corn and soy and all mono-cultured
foodstuffs; a drastic reduction, almost elimination, of all
stimulants; drinking only spring water and fresh squeezed anything;
lowering the quantity of carbohydrate intake; increase the intake of
fresh fruits and vegetables. I eat nuts and fruit and fruit juice
for breakfast and usually guacamole and avocado for lunch to help me
through, and then a fruit salad sometime there and occasionally some
raw fish, those kinds of things. I do recommend a trace mineral
supplement and I use Microhydrin [a broad-spectrum antioxidant]
occasionally and things like that.
What sort of meditation techniques would you recommend?
I recommend that entering the stillness is a good way to get charge
density. One of the best ways to enter the stillness is to do the
fractal of high heart rate before low heart rate. So I recommend
meditation should usually be preceded by posture work and the
kinesthetics, the yoga, the sacred circle dance, the Eurythmy, the
Tai Chi, the sacred gymnastic, the movement for bliss so that the
meditation doesnít become stuck in the head. And also that way the
meditation does not cost you heart rate variability because the
ability to have harmonic inclusiveness in the heart rate is not
served by a sedentary lifestyle.
In terms of meditation, my personal experiences of
intense kundalini experiences was brought on by the Gurdjieff sacred
gymnastic and the breath work to some extent, so my life has not
been so focused on how to find that so much as how to not let it
burn me up. So I may not be just the perfect person to ask about how
to meditate, but indeed the Heart Tuner, for example, does show the
relationship of your breath to your heart music and that is a big
indicator of when your body can embed in the training.
essence of meditation is simple, you need to have a very long wave
that can then embed short waves. To embed yourself in a long wave is
the function of ritual and meditation, as is myosis and mytosis,
embedding in a long wave. So that process of getting yourself phase
aligned with very long waves is sometimes called rapt, or rapture,
or raptor, where you have a vice like sort of grip that you feel
electrically when you get really still. And that is a way to commune
with the infinite. The risk is that if you do that communion without
coming back and bringing it into the world which is called
grounding, and grounding is access to a fractal for psychologists or
electricians. That if you come back without finally delivering that
information youíve picked up by entering the stillness, it becomes
fractionating, that the only way you avoid the hive mind is when you
come back and individuate what youíve learned and find a way to
share it practically.
Is there are a practical meditative technique you could share?
One simple technique where you can experience the spin path to the
zero point the wave of collapse which produces fusion and embedding
is called the Phi Breath, the Golden Mean Ratio Breath. And if you
were to visualise a caduceus where you have a long wave, and then a
shorter, and then a shorter, which is a spin path to a zero point.
The caduceus is the symbol of the medical profession. And if you
were to do a breath based on that geometry, you take a very big
breath, and then a smaller breath 0.61 as deep and as long, and a
smaller breath, and then a tiny breath, you create a continuous spin
path into stillness. And from the stillness you can enter the field
Youíve talked about the Heart Tuner quite extensively, what are the
other applications of the Heart Tuner?
The Heart Tuner, again at
www.heartcoherence.com, is able to measure the coherence in
EKG, EEG or life force of plants or trees, itís also able to measure
electro-smog with an inductive probe, itís also able to measure the
fire in the pineal with the capacitive probe. The Heart Tuner itself
is a 2 channel programmable pre-amplifier which dumps to very
innovative computer software in the Heart Tuner environment which by
using a second order power spectra called a Septrum is able to
measure internal coherence in a way thatís never been done before.
So while people like the Heart Math people talk about coherence,
they in fact cannot measure it, whereas my device actually measures
the coherence in the heart. Whatís fun is when the heart is
coherent, it literally appears to measure the kinesiological
response so that the ability to have coherence in the heart in terms
of a flashlight to a laser is directly related to finding a
shareable wave of pure intent. Itís kind of a lie detector for the
body. The heart tuner is an incredibly powerful tool, and I say that
not just as the inventor because itís simply the truth.
What is the one most important message which you would like to see
go out there?
I think the one most important message Iíd like to see go out there
has to do with the relationship of surviving compression, sometimes
known as the rapture, or death, or solar maxima in being able to
follow your bliss. Because the DNA, being a self-organising magnetic
shape-shifting worm, when it has implosion at the centre is able to
become self-organising, and self-steering electrically. And that
gives the ability to lucid dream, travel in time, survive death, and
all the fun stuff. But if you havenít found a path which includes
passion and bliss, then literally your DNA is not ignited and it
costs you that tornado we call getting a soul. What that boils down
to is the hygiene for bliss which in principles is a simple science
replacing religion in that sense. We donít need the fairy tales, the
miracle worship, or the personality worship. We need the hygiene for
bliss, we must be able to teach our children bliss, and ultimately
groups, like soul groups, that form and do bliss process together,
and fusion experience is then what enables soul groups to migrate
and travel through the sun into stars. So it is survival related to
be able to find your bliss and follow your passion. Thatís my
information on the interviewer, Tony Mierzwicki, can be found