From New Dawn 209 (Mar-Apr 2025)
After being cancelled for challenging the officially-approved COVID narrative, Pete Evans is back with New Dawn magazine to discuss the potential for individual and collective change in a shifting world. He believes that good health, achieved through great food, is a pathway to this transformation. His latest book, Healthy Food for Healthy Kids, is a guide to delicious, paleo- and keto-friendly meals that kids will love.
I caught up with Pete for another interview, our first in a post-COVID world. We discussed what that period meant to him, his focus moving forward, the election of Donald Trump, and more.
ETHAN NASH (EN): Thank you for joining me again. It feels like the perfect time to catch up with everything happening right now in the world. You can almost feel a shift of energy in the air, particularly in the United States, and I want to get to all that.
But I wanted to start by tying a knot around the COVID-19 period – not so much by talking about what happened or the topic itself, but more by discussing yourself and your role in it all.
We first spoke in 2020, when you were censored and banned from social media. We spoke again in 2022 when the borders had just been opened, and it was still a bit of a weird period.
Today, every time I see a post online, a mainstream media article about you, for example, I notice an overwhelmingly positive response.
Despite how the media has treated you, the Australian public genuinely sees you as a legend for standing up for what you did. You were the first major personality in this country to take a stand against the suppression of free expression, and with everything that’s come out since then, many feel you were on the right side of history.
How much has your life changed since then? And when all is said and done, looking back, how will you remember that period of your life?
PETE EVANS (PE): Thank you for the kind words. I think everybody will look back through this period from their own lens and what it meant to them individually and perhaps collectively if they choose to go down that path.
For me personally… I often say I didn’t have a choice, which is false because we all have a choice in everything we do. I chose to speak out, and I knew there would be some ramifications in doing so. Financially, popularity-wise, career-wise.
It’s a paradox because I didn’t really feel like I had any other choice, even though I have free will. I guess I was guided by my intuition and gut feeling – a feeling that this was the perfect time for me to hold the torch, along with others, and illuminate what I believed was going on.
Part of me felt it was vitally important to show others that it’s okay to express yourselves in ways when intuition guides you – and not be fearful of the possible ramifications. I’m not speaking so much about COVID or the agendas you have covered in-depth, but more so from a deeply personal point of view when it comes to relationships.
For instance, in a loving relationship as husband and wife… is it okay to express what you desire in a relationship? Can you feel safe expressing yourself to your parents, your children, your work colleagues, or your boss in a way that you trust yourself when it needs to be spoken?
If we look at the foundations of long-term regenerative health, one of the things that comes up for a lot of people is bottling emotions away for fear of upsetting others – that can cause dis-ease.
This was one of my motivations for speaking out because I knew there would be retaliation.
I feel that for each of us to have long-term health – physical, emotional, spiritual, and mental – we must not fear to express ourselves authentically with love, compassion, empathy, and sympathy.
What I found was, if we’re talking about me speaking out publicly during that period…. one of the most common responses I received was, ‘I wish I was brave enough’ or ‘I wish I had the courage to do what you’re doing, but I’m fearful of this, that, and the other.’
It also represented for others an opportunity to express themselves in ways that they felt they needed to express themselves. I’m still here – I’m living and breathing, they didn’t lock me up – and I was prepared to be locked up if that was what the journey called for.
I knew the consequences and the potential. I had to consider all the possible scenarios… locked up away from family and the potential of being taken out was the craziest sort of conspiracy I had, which I expressed to Liz Hayes on 60 Minutes in our interview.
I was prepared for all of those things because I consciously decided that this was something I felt passionate about. I’m grateful I listened to my intuition and my gut – that I could go on a journey and be that person for myself. And if other people resonated with it or not? Great if they did, great if they didn’t.
EN: Very well said; thank you for sharing. Moving to something a little more recent now: As I said earlier, there seems to be a shift in the air right now.
The last time we spoke, after the 2022 lockdowns, I asked you a question about navigating the storms ahead. You gave a very eloquent answer about how storms are just a part of changing seasons. As such, there’s also sunshine, rain, hail, and so on. You spoke on learning to embrace the journey, so to speak.
Today, with Donald Trump having been elected and Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (RFK) tipped to gain greater influence and ignite change, the rumblings are daily.
Following up on your previous analogy of changing seasons, do you feel that we’re potentially entering a sunnier season of the current timeline?
PE: Perhaps, perhaps. Again, it comes down to an individual’s perception of reality and what they deem to be ‘sunny days’. I dare say there would be a lot of people that are like, ‘wow, look what is happening and has happened’ – and they have hope.
The other day, a mate sent me a message: ‘Oh, I hope Trump and Kennedy do this’. And I wrote back: ‘Well, I don’t like to use the word hope’.
In that context, I don’t need Trump or Kennedy to do anything for me. Waiting and hoping for other people to do things that will impact our lives is a source of disempowerment. I’m not even a huge fan of the words optimism or pessimism, either, because it’s sort of like hoping and waiting that things will get better.
Can we not take full ownership and responsibility of our human potential on a minute-by-minute, hour-by-hour, day-by-day, week-by-week, or season-by-season basis? No matter what the season, why do we need to have certain expectations met for us to feel content, safe, or trust in ourselves? Why do we wait for external figures to create this safety for us?
Don’t get me wrong, I’m stoked that Trump’s back in and I’m stoked about Kennedy playing a role in the new administration. Maybe by the time this interview is published, he might well be confirmed or not. But I’ll be pleased whether he is or isn’t, regardless, because I trust in every decision that’s playing out on this chessboard of life. It really depends on where our focus lies.
You know, you could be completely oblivious of Donald Trump and Robert Kennedy, Jr. and live a beautiful, peaceful, contented, full experience, regardless of what those men or other people in positions of so-called power do over the coming weeks, months, years, or decades.
That’s where I like to hang out as much as possible: watching the game unfold. The political games, the bureaucratic games, I find them all quite entertaining. However, I’m not tied to any specific outcome. You know, I love reading fantastic novels that have plot twists you don’t expect. It fascinates me how someone can create a scenario, or twist, or change of season so quickly – and what will come from that shift?
We can’t hold on to these expectations of what we think must happen. I’ve learned in this life to set an intention for what you desire or wish to see in the world, but then let it go as well. And that isn’t to say that we aren’t wonderful manifesters. We’re also co-creators with every other individual on the face of the planet. I really love the mystery and surprise elements of the game being played, which I choose to observe in those various scenarios.
And I’m always open for the curveball that may or may not come.
For the last two years, I’ve been reading many Isaac Asimov’s novels from the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s and even the 80s on the potential applications for robotics and AI.
I’m fascinated by it because there are so many parallels to what he was writing about decades ago and what’s happening now – and all the possibilities that can spring from this. He’s discussed much of this in his books, and I find it fascinating that just now, I went on social media, and the truth movement is up in arms over the mRNA shot. I love that.
To speak out is to express yourself. But at the same time, I’m not willing to throw human ingenuity out because of a potential fear of something we still don’t fully understand. I’m curious to see how these things go. Obviously, if by next year they announce, ‘All right, we’ve got the cure for cancer and an mRNA vaccine, and everyone will be tested and we’ll provide this to you’ – I would likely be very, very vocal again.
Again, it does not address what I believe should be the foundational principles of long-term regenerative health, which is not overlooking our emotional belief systems. A greater focus on that and diet could have profound implications for the medical and health systems in the coming decades.
Who knows if they’ll get there in my lifetime? I’m so excited about everything that’s currently coming to the surface for us to intelligently debate, ponder, contemplate, consider, and even reject. Yeah, I’m excited!
EN: It’s sure to be a fascinating few decades ahead. It’s an incredible time to be alive. In the magazine, we’ve explored the parallels between early science fiction and the direction the world is taking, particularly regarding artificial intelligence. Like you, I observe from a distance, and many people are definitely invested in the ‘redemption arc of Donald Trump’. From your point of view, do you see anything similar unfolding in Australia in the coming years? Perhaps some push for a political or health revolution? We’d love to hear your thoughts on this, and would you consider being part of something like that if it happened here?
PE: I see good people out there in the system – some of the senators, for instance, that you may have interviewed or seen over the past few years. I resonate with what some of them are saying. But it seems they face these almost impenetrable walls because the system has been designed to create these walls that, perhaps, aren’t ready to be broken down just yet.
I could be wrong; I’d like to be wrong about this. But how long would it take to either rebuild or dissolve some of these walls into a new direction… without actually creating new impenetrable walls? It’s a very deep question that I don’t have a definite answer for.
My observation is that America ‘holds the key’, so to speak. What happens over the next four years, depending on who takes over after Trump, will be the proof of the pudding. What ripple effect will we see throughout the rest of the world?
And will Australia be second in line, third in line, tenth, or one hundredth in line to feel the ripple effect? I’d love for the ripple effect to be felt here very, very quickly – but whether that happens or not remains to be seen.
That doesn’t mean we can’t start taking steps now, though. I see individuals stepping up to the plate for the right reasons, and each person has to figure out if they’re willing to go in and bang on those walls. I’ve thought about the potential of my role in this game, and there’s still a big question mark for me about how I can use my expression to achieve the most impact.
I still feel that, at this particular point in time, food is vitally important for massive amounts of change. We’ve discussed this before in our prior interviews, so I won’t go there again, but I feel like that seems to be where I’m best suited for my so-called celebrity or fame, and, obviously, knowledge, wisdom and experience in the art of cooking and nutrition.
Politics doesn’t really call to me. When I think about it, I can’t see a future there. I haven’t seen any future in it so far, and looking ahead, I still don’t see it.
EN: What does the future hold for Pete Evans?
PE: I have a book coming out with Robert F. Kennedy Jr.’s Children’s Health Defence in the coming weeks, and I’m planning a tour in the States in March [2025]. We’re organising influential people with large audiences so I can share the message of food as medicine and food as poison, depending on what you choose to take into your body.
What if we educated people on how to eat delicious, budget-friendly food for themselves and their families, cultivating a deep belief in self-nourishment through the simple acts of shopping and cooking for oneself and then enjoying that food mindfully? If we could inspire people to prioritise food as one of their top values in life, understanding that it could add decades to your life and life to your decades…
Then, we would probably never have to spend money fighting the multinational food corporations or the FDA, trying to get food dyes or additives out of food. Because once people are educated about healthy eating, they would never shop in that section of the supermarket anyway. That business would, by default, go bankrupt or have to adapt.
It’s about focusing on inspiring change because the single greatest act of rebellion against all of the agendas and systems is to be healthy. Once you are healthy, you no longer are a part of medical system, the pharmaceutical system, the multinational food system, the big agricultural system, and the list goes on and on.
I spoke with RFK Jr. the other day and I said: ‘How about we set up a government website to Make America Healthy Again and include a couple of thousand recipes of mine?’ I thought, my name doesn’t need to be associated with it; I can remain anonymous – but the recipes should be there. We could even bring in America’s top chefs, the ones that people love and know – because they rejected Jamie Oliver when he came over to teach Americans to avoid sugar – so why not approach it cleverly with American chefs preparing nutrient-dense, beautiful, non-inflammatory food. We could even offer it to Americans for free and create a cooking school, teaching people how to cook and hang out. Essentially, create this beautiful database that people can access anytime.
I said: ‘How inexpensive would that be to create, and how inspiring could it be for a government agency to offer?! A guide that doesn’t abide by the dietary principles that are currently prescribed by dietary associations in the Western world, as we know they’re completely wrong – in my opinion, even criminal – and rather just inspire people to nourish themselves?’ He loved the idea. Now that I’ve set that intention, will that happen?
At the end of the day, it’s up to the individual to decide whether to explore these issues, and I would never force it on anybody. I would never force everyone to eat this way. If you want to eat junk food, I respect your decision; fantastic, good for you. I love free will, but at the same time, I think better, more trustworthy information would be really nice to have available.
I’m 51 years old, and I’ve been eating this way for 15 years. According to health authorities, I should be sick, my bones should be brittle, and I probably shouldn’t even be here – because, in their opinion, I’m ‘depriving myself of the most essential foods on the face of the planet’.
Yet, as a 51-year-old, I surfed today for two hours, and I’d say I’m in the best physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual shape of my life. My intention is for that to grow, strengthen, and evolve until the day I pass away from old age or an injury. I don’t see myself in a hospital bed on life support or having cancer, heart disease, Alzheimer’s, or dementia – that’s not part of my life plan. My life plan is to age gracefully with wisdom and strength until it’s time to go and not be in any pain or suffering.
Again, that’s my belief, and how do we cultivate these beliefs? We cultivate these beliefs through the potential of understanding what is possible.
If you read mainstream media, you would potentially believe that after the age of 30, it’s all downhill and your health will decline. ‘You should be on this pharmaceutical, and this vaccine, and this trajectory’. In America, on average, every adult is on four pharmaceuticals. It doesn’t have to be like that. I know it can change. Can we get to that point? I believe you can individually. Can we achieve that collectively? I’m not sure if that will occur in my lifetime. Perhaps, perhaps not. That’s once again, part of the mystery.
EN: Your new book, Healthy Food for Healthy Kids, features 120 fantastic budget-friendly recipes. So, if your suggestion for a health database doesn’t come to fruition on a US government website, people can still access this valuable information. You certainly have the expertise and experience to make a real impact in food and health.
Before wrapping up, I wanted to touch on another potentially game-changing alternative that has really grown, which I notice you post about often, and that is cryptocurrency. Could you share your thoughts on how this might influence the future unfolding before our eyes?
PE: I feel like Bitcoin has manifested as a tool for long-term wealth because we know what inflation and fiat currency are about – taking and devaluing in a centralised manner – basically theft. I came across Bitcoin about five years ago, and I’ve spent thousands of hours studying it. Bitcoin and health principles go hand-in-hand because it’s about self-accountability, self-responsibility, and self-sovereignty. The two mirror each other beautifully, so I’m intently wanting to work in and be seen in that space. There are hundreds of millions of Bitcoiners around the world, and to potentially inspire them regarding food and nutrition would be great.
A lot of people I’ve interviewed in that space are some of the healthiest and smartest people, and they already have that dialled in. So, there seems to be a correlation between Bitcoin, health, and nutrition – but I haven’t seen a chef bridge the Bitcoin and health worlds. That’s only come up for me in the last month, so I’m pondering and contemplating the best way of bridging those two at the moment.
If you haven’t studied Bitcoin, I would highly recommend people read The Bitcoin Standard as a bare minimum to understand how governments and medical institutions are very similar to the banking industries. To understand the history of money – what money is, what currency is, what value is – I got to it all quite late, but it’s been one of the greatest experiences I’ve had over the last five years. Learning about Bitcoin has taught me so much – so much more than I thought – and I think that’s always a good thing when you learn. When I learned about cooking, I thought cooking was just about cooking delicious food. Would you believe there’s also a nutritional aspect to it that most chefs don’t really take into consideration?
I’m sorry to generalise there, but we weren’t taught about nutrition when we did our apprenticeship. Doctors who go to college to study medicine do eight hours maximum on nutrition, which is crazy. In the same way, I was never really taught about finances and money.
Once you see it, you can’t unsee it. It will be interesting to see what plays out over the coming decade in the Bitcoin and finance space with central bank digital currencies – whether they get off the ground or not. As you said, it’s an amazing time to be alive.
EN: Is there anything else you would like to leave the readers with?
PE: I truly love what you and the others at New Dawn are doing. It’s always a great read, and I’m stoked that you guys are expressing yourselves creatively.
It’s my deep belief that our purpose on this earth is to express ourselves creatively through whatever brings us joy and cultivates our passion, and to love unconditionally. It’s great to see you and others doing that through your medium, so thanks for providing the space to share.
Visit peteevans.com for more great content from Pete Evans. His new book, Healthy Food for Healthy Kids: 120 Simple, Nourishing, Gluten and Dairy-Free Recipes Your Whole Family Will Love, is now widely available in bookstores, online and physical. You can also explore Pete’s documentaries, podcasts, vodcasts, and more by visiting evolvenetwork.tv. X: @peteevanschefx
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