The People vs. the Hidden Hand: David Icke Speaks Out (Part 2)

From New Dawn 157 (July-Aug 2016)

The May-June 2016 issue of New Dawn featured the first part of David Icke’s interview with Marc Star. Here we present the second part of his interview (David’s surname is pronounced “ike”).

MARC STAR (MS): You’ve noted that the current state of the world is only a reflection of the inner state of the individual. Humanity is at a spiritual roadblock reflected by a lack of awareness and the cutting off of our own spiritual essence. One might say we’ve gone mad, a chronic case of PTSD. Perhaps we never recovered from World War II. We’ve certainly never stopped being at war. Can this patient be cured?

DAVID ICKE (DI): What is the patient? The patient is incarnate awareness disconnected from its infinite self – disconnected from inspiration, knowing, insight and intuition from its greater self operating at frequencies outside of this fake reality we call the world. As I’ll explain at the events, I say that what we call the universe is actually a quantum computer. It’s a fake reality. It’s a vast equivalent of, if you like, a computer game. It’s the same principle – which is why the physics of computer games and the physics of our world are basically the same.

The patient is a patient in that term because people are disconnected from their true selves. What we call awakening is simply awakening from the program to tap into greater swathes of our true self. If you do it at first, and you just start to tap into some of the greater self, then you start to see that 9/11 was set up to create an excuse for what has followed – the war on terrorism, etc. You see that the banking system is basically that, the banking system, and individual banks are just agencies of that overall system controlled by a few people. And so it goes on. You start to understand the five-sense level of connection because you’re now looking at things from a more expanded state of awareness.

Some stop at that point. And that’s where most of the alternative media is, frankly. When you move on and continue to expand your awareness, then everything is questioned. Everything comes under questioning in terms of what’s real and what’s true. You start to realise that the physical world is not physical at all. There is no physical, as quantum physics has shown. There is only the illusion of physical. Just like the computer in front of me decodes information in the tower and puts on the screen pictures, moving pictures, text, graphics because it’s decoded that information from the tower in that state, so we are decoding through what I call the biological computer – the body. We are decoding information from the unseen – what I call a cosmic wireless internet – into the reality we think is so real, so solid.

The patients cure themselves by breaking out of the perception prison of the program and allowing their true self, infinite awareness, to enter the game, and enter the perception process – allowing people to tap into their true power, as opposed to their suppressed power of ‘phantom self’ [see Part 1]. More and more people are doing this. This is what the awakening is. And the more people awaken, the more people question things they took for absolute granted before – like the desk in front of me is solid. No it’s not. It appears to be but it’s not.

This is a massive part of what I’m talking about in the events and in my new book Phantom Self, because there is no other way of bringing an end to all this nonsense that doesn’t involve people expanding their awareness out of the program and into their true self. Let’s think about it – this whole structure of human society, which is specifically designed to disconnect incarnate self from infinite self, is not done for a laugh. It’s not done for a bit of fun. It’s absolutely fundamental to the success of what they’re trying to achieve. So it must make basic common sense that the way to address that is to reverse what they want, and what they’re doing – i.e., reconnect incarnate self to infinite self.

Much of the alternative media is focused on the five-sense world because it’s been through the program too, and thus can only see five-sense solutions to what it perceives to be five-sense problems and five-sense situations. Stockpile weapons, stockpile food, fight the system. The system depends in its entirety on the existence of phantom self. Without it, there is no system.

I’m not saying sit cross-legged on a mountain, meditate for the rest of your life, do nothing and everything will be fine because you’re on a higher frequency now. No, no. Absolutely not. A lot of what is called ‘new age’ falls into that illusion because that means it doesn’t have to do anything that it actually doesn’t want to do – i.e., get its hands dirty and look this situation in the face, in the eye.

By all means, meditate if you like, go into deeper levels of self, get insight, get inspiration, but then express that inspiration towards changing the world, or else there’s no point. I hear people say, “knowledge is power.” No it’s not. Knowledge is not power at all. The use of knowledge is power. Knowledge that you don’t use you might as well not have it at all.

But everything, in terms of playing this out and doing what is necessary, comes from an expanded perception of self and the world. Then you’ll know what your individual unique contribution should be.

All these things are connected. The awakening to a different view of the world and self is happening because those people are expanding their perception out of the program. If they weren’t, they wouldn’t be re-evaluating the world of self. All this is moving in the right direction. It’s just a case of numbers.

On the subject of the alternative media, I have enormous respect for people worldwide who take the trouble and often dedicate their lives to communicating this information. So much of the alternative media is itself stuck in phantom self – not all the alternative media, by any means. No. But vast chunks of it. Vast swathes of it are just like the mainstream media in a mindset of “here and no further” because they literally can’t get their head around going any further. It doesn’t make any sense to them. They can’t process it because phantom self has still got you.

There is an incredible amount of ego in the alternative media and among people that follow the alternative media, which you see in the extraordinary levels of abuse on social media, the forums, the comment columns and all that stuff. Along with abuse between different researchers and what have you. It’s extraordinary. I’ve had as much abuse from the alternative media as I have from the mainstream media – which, given the scale of the abuse from the mainstream media, is saying something. Because the alternative media – again, not all of it, but a great chunk of it – is also an expression of the sheep and the sheepdog that I mentioned earlier [see Part 1]. Sheep keeping sheeple in line.

I think the alternative media has to look at itself – that part of it that I’m talking about – and ask, too, if it’s not caught in the same conspiracy, the same perception deception that those which it targets are caught in. Once you think, “I know what’s going on” in the sense of its entirety, you’re kidding yourself and you’re kidding others because in the end there’s an infinity of awareness/knowledge/perception that never gets to the conscious mind.

I’ve always done my work on the basis of a certain recurring theme. Socrates has a version of it. Confucius has a version of it. There are many versions of it. Basically the theme is: Wisdom is knowing how little we know. When you hold that then your mind is open to all possibility all the time, instead of closed off to possibility that doesn’t suit your current belief system. And the alternative media needs to be aware of that because much of it gets caught in that trap of “here and no further.” The rabbit hole is so deep, far deeper than almost anyone can imagine.

MS: With Russia propagandised by the West as the aggressor in Ukraine, and Russia’s success against ISIL in Syria, it seems Vladimir Putin has become the leading face of global resistance against Empire. What are your thoughts on Putin and the role he is playing – knowingly or unknowingly – in the larger drama?

DI: Obviously, if you look at Putin’s history, he’s not a nice man. But when I look at people like Obama, and of course his predecessor Bush, when I look at David Cameron, when I look at Hollande in France, and all these characters, one thing that shouts out about Putin is that he is phenomenally more intelligent than all of them put together. And Putin is clearly aware of what the agenda is for Russia.

When I played on a football team managed by a guy named Jimmy Hill, a well-known guy in this country [UK], back in the 1960s, he used to say, when you start a match, get your retaliation in early. What he meant by that was take physical control of the game early. What Putin has been doing is getting his retaliation in early.

He has, to an extent, thrown a spanner in the works – although there are other deeper levels of this. It depends on what level you’re actually looking at and talking about at the time. But he’s fully aware of the Western coup, the American coup in the Ukraine, where this puppet Poroshenko was put into power. And, of course, Wikileaks documents have come to light that talk many years ago, long before anyone heard of it in the Western public, that Poroshenko is a United States asset in Ukraine, and this asset of long years suddenly becomes president in a coup that was a classic George Soros colour revolution – what they call regime change. The idea was to create antagonism between Ukraine and Russia to try to justify the demonisation of Russia. In Syria, of course, the American/British/NATO-created terrorist groups – whether it be the so-called Free Syrian Army, or ISIL/ISIS, or whatever name is given – they were created as proxy armies for the West to take over country after country.

And, of course, they have long wished to dethrone Assad, going back at least to documents in the pre-9/11 world, which listed the countries they wanted to take over – regime change. These countries have been ticked off – Iraq, Libya, Syria and so on.

The idea was to let loose these proxy armies, funded and trained by the West, to remove Assad and tear Syria asunder. This is why, despite having the biggest military on Earth by a vast, vast distance, despite having European countries involved in the fight against ISIL, in the bombing of ISIL… actually ISIL were just expanding and expanding because they were being allowed to. The idea was not to stop them but just to give the illusion of trying to stop them. Assad reached the point where he was in imminent danger of losing control, including Damascus. Putin could see what was going on and got his retaliation in early, if you like. He went in there to turn that around and blatantly showed, by the success of pushing ISIL back, how the West has been systematically allowing ISIL to expand – because that’s just what they want. They’re a proxy army for the West.

I’m sure that threw a spanner in the works of where they wanted to go. Assad is not gone. They thought Assad would go as quickly as Qadhafi, and he hasn’t. Largely that is because of Putin. So from here on in it’s going to be interesting to see where this goes in terms of Russia because Putin has been playing these other idiots, like Obama and Cameron and Hollande, etc., like a stringed instrument. It’s like a chess match and he’s been putting them in check all over the place. Interesting to see where it goes because the plan all along has been to create, at some point, a third world war with the West against Russia and China. I’ve been talking about that since the 1990s.

Whether they can pull that off is another thing given that Putin will be absolutely aware of that agenda.

MS: What about Brexit and the European Union?

DI: The European Union is the forerunner for what they want around the world. The EU, as it’s become – a fascist/communist/bureaucratic dictatorship controlled by dark suit appointees in Brussels – was created originally as a free trade area because people back then would not have accepted the EU that it’s become now. What has happened is a classic and perfect example of what I call the totalitarian tiptoe.

That free trade area has evolved through the incessant centralisation of more and more power in Brussels with the dark suits. It has been transformed from a free trade area – which is “good for jobs, mate” they said – into this bureaucratic prison state, in effect, where national laws are overridden by anything these dark suits come up with.

Other trade areas around the world including Australia and New Zealand are planned to become their version of the European Union, because the structure of the ‘hunger games society’ is designed to be a world government, a world central bank, with a cashless world currency, dictating to all people everywhere – imposed by a world army which is what NATO is designed to evolve into. I mean, look how fast that’s coming in now. In books in the 1990s I was saying watch for NATO to start operating outside of its designated area of the North Atlantic region. Now, of course, NATO turns up in the Middle East, and all over the bloody place. It’s the evolving world army.

Under that structure, at the global level, it’s designed to be versions of the European Union all over the world – in the Australia/New Zealand part of the world, in the Americas, in the Middle East. We’ve already got the African Union, and so on.

The plan for the EU is to continue to absorb more and more countries. Goodness knows, when you see the European Union there are still countries that want to join. I’ve said before – wanting to join the EU and the European monetary system, having seen it for what it is now – which has been a disaster – wanting to join that is equivalent to looking up at a blazing apartment block and asking when you can move in. It’s insane.

But the hidden hand, of course, is behind these countries, pushing them in. So the last thing they want are for countries to start to leave because that’s starting to reverse where they want to go.

What’s happened in Britain is this moronic man, David Cameron, the prime minister, was coming up to an election last year, and opinion polls were showing big support for a party here called UKIP, the UK Independence Party, which was specifically created to campaign to leave the European Union.

What they call here middle England invariably votes for Cameron’s Conservative Party over the decades. They are sick of the European Union and its impositions, and the incredible red tape it imposes upon small and medium size businesses – red tape which is simply designed to destroy them so the corporations can take over everything.

Therefore, UKIP’s campaign to leave the European Union was getting more and more support in the polls from these otherwise natural conservative voters. And so Cameron panicked and said if he got elected again as prime minister he would have a referendum on giving people the opportunity to vote in or out of the EU.

The polls also strongly suggested the Conservative Party would not win outright, but again, like the administration before, would have to share power with a second party in a coalition. The Liberal Democrats coalition was with the conservatives in the government before the election. And the Liberal Democrats are EU fanatics. Cameron obviously thought that in this coalition he’d have the excuse of saying the Liberal Democrats are blocking the referendum. In other words, he thought he could promise the referendum without any consequences.

But unfortunately – unfortunate in one way, but in this way, fortunately – he got power without needing to be in a coalition, and thus he was stuck with a promise of the referendum. And this referendum coincides with this vast influx of migrants and refugees into Europe. The fear of the consequences of this influx of refugees has turned more and more people against EU membership – so they say Britain can control its own borders rather than having them dictated by the dark suits in Brussels.

MS: In 2009, you began your Melbourne talk with a story of being held up by immigration officials at Melbourne airport who compelled you to sign a “character test” agreement. What aspects of Australia’s role in the hidden hand’s agenda most concern you?

DI: Actually I had to sign something that said I read something. Bizarre. “Just sign and say you’ve read this.” Well okay, I’ve read it.

Australia is a very obvious example of the fact that this agenda is global, and therefore globally coordinated. The things that are happening in Australia – more and more surveillance, even the exposure of elite paedophilia rings, etc. – they’re everywhere. I won’t get into it now, but paedophilia among the elite is everywhere, all over the world, for reasons I explain. Thus for it to come up in Australia as it’s come up in Britain – and they’re trying to desperately put the lid on it in Britain and other places – is because it’s a global phenomenon. So is this increasing surveillance that Australians are being put under. The same is happening here, the same is happening in America, the same is happening in Europe – because it’s a global agenda.

The thing that stands out for me, in recent times, in Australia – and should send alarm bells and big red flashing lights everywhere – is the law that says you can’t get benefits if your children aren’t vaccinated. This is another global phenomenon – mandatory vaccinations. This Australian law, in effect, targets people who survive because of those benefits. It is a stepping stone – and only a stepping stone – to a fully fledged mandatory program of vaccinations for everybody.

In California, and in other parts of America, there is this theme coming of mandatory vaccinations because this awakening, even on that level, is causing more and more people to look, for instance, at what’s in vaccines and the evidence of their effect. The fact is vaccines are demolishing developing immune systems in kids less than 2 who are being subjected to this tidal wave of toxic shite – called vaccines – which is ensuring their immune systems will never be the same as they could be. And they’re adding more and more all the time. But because of the awakening, people, in greater and greater numbers, are rejecting vaccinations.

There are two things they plan to do. First of all – and this is happening more and more – they have to outlaw, censor and block information that exposes what’s going on and that helps people awaken to what’s going on. Where people are awakening and saying, “we’re not having this,” then they introduce laws that say, “you are having it and you’ve got no choice.”

The scale of fascism, the scale of arrogance, that believes it can dictate what human beings put into their own bodies and what is allowed into their children’s bodies is so unspeakable, almost unimaginable to anyone with a sense of decency, a sense of fairness and a sense of justice.

From what I read, there’s been a big vaccination take-up as people have been forced into it, otherwise lose benefits. The people of Australia need to open their minds to what’s going on and what the connections are because the vaccine agenda is just part of the larger agenda. It’s one strand in the web, and a very important one.

Because Australia has such a small population, comparatively, to so many other countries, it has the opportunity to take back control of the country from that which hijacked it – going back to the British empire. You look at excess of 300 million people in America – well that takes some turning around. But you look at the population of Australia. You’ve got a great chance there, if enough people say enough, realise what’s going on and respond to it with unity. And I hope that going to Perth, Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne and onto Auckland will stimulate awareness of not just the nature of what’s happening, but the scale of it and how all these apparent unconnected dots connect to show a very clear picture.

I hope – and this is the whole idea – that when I leave, this information is in greater circulation and being talked about more than when I arrived. That’s the whole point of doing it. And I do pay great tribute to the work that New Dawn and everyone involved in it has done because it’s great more and more people are getting involved, more and more people are becoming researchers, more and more people are starting websites to circulate this information.

But it was a lonely road some time ago, trying to make heard what people were dismissing and being called every name you can think of. And New Dawn was there. I’ve got enormous respect for what that publication has done when, as you well know, there weren’t a lot of people compared with now that were interested in hearing it. It’s the pioneers that start the change. New Dawn in Australia has absolutely been one of the pioneers.

David Icke’s book Phantom Self (and how to find the real one) is available through

The first part of this interview appears in New Dawn 156 (May-June 2016)..

This article was published in New Dawn 157.
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About the Author

Marc Star is a writer, photographer and musician living in Los Angeles, California. Awakened to the coordinated corruption sometime after 9/11, he has been on a mission ever since to put together the most relevant pieces of the puzzle, those elements of the story that the mainstream media willfully ignores, in order to bring the bigger picture to life. He can be found online at

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